Group 1; October 20

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According to Ravitch, what was progressive edu? Why did it spread? How pervasive was it?

  • Dewey not the same as "child-centered"
    • Dewey--not all in for "child-centered" schools
  • life adjustment

  • for rich kids, who didn't need particular skills, mostly in NYC
  • mandated from about due to curriculum surveys, but little evidence outside ravitch for this

  • it spread with the rise of vocational ed in secondary ed--a mass institution now expanding (1940, more than 50% graduating high school)
  • make it more interesting for the increased masses by increasing participation (projects, inquiry...somewhat Deweyish w/ motivation)
  • NEA, Cubberly; working class kids in schools and IQ test prove they're dumb, so make their educ. more relevant to their lives)
    • not everyone will grow up to be white-collar, better prepare for their "destinies" ...link to depression era?
  • curriculum survey's were pre-ordained, however, elements were very inspiring to teachers
  • Kilpatrick--educated 30,000 students, "project method"
  • Milwaukee teacher's association invited Kilpatrick to MKE, was attractive--pedagogical progressivism, professionalizing



What is Ravitch's stance toward prog. ed?

  • leans anti-progresive
  • P. 74, "disagree with schools' practices"
  • p. 79, "to encourage consensus"

  • schools of ed love progressive ideas, she hates it...became antagonistic toward schools of ed, but they are a vehicle to be qualified to be a teacher in the first place
  • (Ravitch was not allowed to teach at NYU b/c her stance on progressive ed)
  • hey, NCLB is restricting curriculum with high-stakes testing

  • She love hard work, discipline, individualism
  • the best scenario is academic curricu, despite college-bound or not, expect hard work and self-discipline

  • prog. ed is more/less the devil
  • some student engagement is good, but ACADEMICS is really important!
  • uses crazy examples to support her idea with anecdotal evidence


Pedagogical progressives
~~need really deep content knowledge

How Teachers Taught---lots of research, but a very boring book

in a pedagogical way, progressivism never really was taught


high school changes 1900-1910
~~elaborate set of tracks
~~Latin becomes less important, as does ancient history
~~development of business english, business math
~~did teachers just not figure out how to teach "these kids"
~~vocational ed didn't really prepare kids for skilled jobs
(~~Japan assumes--do not believe success is preordained by intellect, no type casting; effort will get you far)
(~~Chinese look to use for application of facts)
~~US Universities are still widely seen as "the best in the world"

How persuasuive is Ravitch overall?
~~Social Frontier--only 6,000 magazines in circulation at any point